Comments on: Episco-upgrades: Reclaim the mission

By: Wendy Johnson

Wendy Johnson — Wed, 21 Apr 2010 16:49:31 +0000

Tackle theology/Christology…I find that the theology/Christology we use in the words of our liturgy, hymns, and even sermons do not match that which makes sense in the 21st century US nor does it even line up with the theology/Christology being churned out at seminaries.

While I understand the ‘inherited’ nature of our liturgical language, I believe we’ve all become far too accustomed to the apologetics of the church when it comes to things we say (eg., much of what we say in the creed). In my mind, it simply makes gatherings inaccessible to folks who aren’t already “in” the historical Christianity club or who aren’t interested in mental gymnastics.

I also believe we need to move away from the orthopraxy/orthodoxy situations and move toward something I call orthorelational. Seems like what Nancy might be getting at in her comment.

By: padre mambo

padre mambo — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 23:53:44 +0000

speaking of kitchen nightmares: I blogged on it several months ago.

http://padremambo.wordpress.com/tag/kitchen-nightmares/

By: nancy

nancy — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 20:45:15 +0000

As someone who is a newcomer on a somewhat regular basis to various Episcopal churches in my area I love your comment that “Worship needs to be authentic and well done….It needs to work for someone who’s not part of the insider crowd. It needs to be holy.”
Some of my best worship experiences in church have been early morning, where more silence is kept, there is actual eye contact and warmth when passing the peace, and there is a genuine feeling of connectedness within the congregation, and with God. It doesn’t have to be splashy. It just needs to feel real.

By: Scott Gunn

Scott Gunn — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 18:02:00 +0000

+Alan, please do blog about Ramsay. Maybe we need a church critic a bit less polite than the Mystery Worshiper.

Ralph, you are, of course, right. Sometimes it’s not easy to discern what God might like us to be doing.

Wendy, your friend is spot on. The church is no longer in the mainstream in the US. We just need to own up to that. Also, can you say more about what you’d like to see re: theology/Christology in the Episcopal Church?

Meredith, right you are. I just feel more comfortable critiquing my own tribe.

Everyone else, thanks! More comments are most welcome. This is a good (and essential) conversation for us to be having.

By: KJ

KJ — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 16:18:05 +0000

Couldn’t agree more. Both on the right, and the left, when the church becomes about secular politics or “whatever”, it becomes increasingly irrelevant. However, when it becomes about the Good News, lives are changed, and those things that some would like to consider primary, such as social justice, become a natural outflow of the Spirit as we live in accordance with our baptismal vows.

I look forward to reading your continued thoughts.

By: Empy Schneider

Empy Schneider — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 15:58:28 +0000

“We have ignored our rich liturgical heritage and sanctified humdrum liturgy.” In many cases, “Sad but true!!” We might do well to keep in mind the phrase, “Worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness!”

By: Meredith Gould

Meredith Gould — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 15:39:50 +0000

Poor preaching is endemic and epidemic, not just in the Episcopal Church. But you already know that. Love the pro tip about hymnody.

By: Wendy Johnson

Wendy Johnson — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 14:32:40 +0000

My friend Doug Pagitt recently posted a video saying that he believes the Christian Church does better when it is not in the mainstream. Perhaps we need to let go of our mainline attitudes and the accompanying desires for power and authority (both within the church – and in the larger society) and grasp instead our desire for the greater purposes of G-d.

BTW, In your series I’d love to see you tackle theology, Christology and the Episcopal Church.

By: RWilliams

RWilliams — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 12:47:39 +0000

If “God” is running the “business” how can it fail? If a church is Christ centered and not in the business of being a church I think the “customers” will come.

By: mojwnun

mojwnun — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 11:58:00 +0000

One of the Niebuhr boys remarked that a preacher ought to have the Bible in one hand and the New York Times in the other. I think a whole lot of them ran out of hands long before they could do that.

By: Joseph P. Mathews

Joseph P. Mathews — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 10:49:39 +0000

Thank you for this. I hope it gets well-circulated.

By: Bishop Alan Wilson

Bishop Alan Wilson — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 07:40:56 +0000

I’m sometimes struck by the wisdom of the incredibly foulmouthed Blessed Gordon Ramsay, the superstar restauranteur, who goes around the UK and the US critiquing restaurants. He bursts the bubbles of people who think their restaurant is great even though the food is lousy, people who just hope someone will show up, staff who run the joint for their own benefit not the diners, restauranteurs who don’t understand their context, those who have no passion for food but just treat it like a business. I commend the analogy to the Church. May even blog it sometime.